Daan van Rossum: You are now going to be the host of this podcast, taking your unique spin on the Future of Work and the Future of HR within the Future of Work. So tell us a little bit about yourself.

What should people know about you before we go into the season itself? 

Tim Reitsma: I think we've got an hour right to tell about; I love it. A little bit about me. I stumbled into the world of HR, not intentionally. I was invited to join a consulting organization. I was a people and culture consultant, and that got me excited about connecting processes and business operations to people.

That's what I'm passionate about. At the end of the day, it's that you can have a lot of great people, but if you've got terrible processes and terrible goals or no goals, you're going to fail. And vice versa, if you've got great processes, great goals, great direction, but terrible people, you're not going to succeed.

I spent a bit of time in that space. I pivoted my career from operations into HR. Through that, I had an opportunity to play in the digital media space as a host and co-founder of another publication. And when that came to an end, I spun up my own little project called invisiblecondition.com, really about disability inclusion. Okay, get into that today.

But again, it comes down to how we create spaces for our people to thrive, and I think that's what I love about what FlexOS is doing, especially when we think about the future of work.

Daan van Rossum: And what are some things that people can look forward to hearing? Obviously, you still have to actually do most of the interviews, but what are some things that people can expect in the season? 

Tim Reitsma: This season, we really want to focus on getting very intentional about HR in the Future of Work. We don't know what the future is going to hold. We have some ideas on the direction.

We know AI is going to play a significant role, but in this season, we're talking with experts and passionate people in the space of HR, and how do we relate given topics to HR in the Future of Work? For example, our workspaces are changing; some are virtual, some are hybrid, and some are full-office.

What's HR's role in this? Workplace culture. There's tens of thousands of podcasts already on this topic of workplace culture. So, why do we need another one? We need another one on this topic because we are talking about HR's role and again in the Future of Work. How do we get out of that tactical space?

That's okay. We need to hire people. We need to recruit people, but take a pause, and are we equipped to then think about the future? And that's really where we want to take this season, if you will. It's a bit of a masterclass in HR and the Future of Work.

Daan van Rossum: Yeah. Wonderful. You've spent 15 years. You look so young, but somehow you spent 15 years building and leading great teams. I know you have a couple of core values. I have them here: faith, family, curiosity, and fun. So besides the obvious question, why are there three F's and one C? The second question is, how did these core values guide you in the way that you were leading teams, and maybe what you will pass on to our listeners this season as well?

Tim Reitsma: We all have core values, whether we know it or not, and a number of years ago, there was an opportunity that presented itself. On paper, it looked like a phenomenal opportunity, but internally it conflicted with me. And so I've gone on this journey of why is it so conflicting? And unpack some of my core values.

For me, it's everything that I try to do through that filter. Sometimes it's post saying yes to something, and then I take a step back and go. Okay. What's going on? Why am I miserable? Why am I not happy? Why is my family now miserable, and it often comes down to a conflict in our core values? When we think about the future of work, it's made up of humans. We're all different.

And I think that's what's exciting about the future. And imagine we are able to unpack how we're different, how we think, and lean into that in our organizations. And I had the opportunity as an HR leader to lead these exercises in organizations, and seeing those light bulb moments with teams was phenomenal.

And I think for listeners, if somebody is listening and is thinking, ah, core values, whatever they're, written on the corporate wall somewhere or in a handbook, but it all starts with ourselves. What drives you because we're all different? And if we're able to. communicate that, and I'm very explicit about my core values, I would encourage others to be as well.

We're able to then ask good questions when something isn't sitting well with us. And I think this is one of my core values, and I validated this with my mom recently. How was I when I was a kid? And she said, You're incredibly curious. And I love just asking questions, not for the sake of annoying somebody. I'll leave that to our young kids, where we just, dad, what is that?

I have no idea. But when you get to the heart of something, the root of something, I think then we can build amazing plans. We can then start dreaming and hopefully create the space to then put that into practice.

Daan van Rossum: You talked about this idea of a masterclass. So getting people all on the same page on all of these really big topics that we hear about all the time, but we still don't really know what the role of HR is and what it looks like now and in the future, you're obviously an expert yourself, and then you're going to interview other experts. Again, from that perspective of curiosity. What are some things that you're genuinely curious about when it comes to work in the future? 

Tim Reitsma: The intersection of AI and our workforces, and how do we navigate this world of work with AI and HR's role in this?

The future of the office and HR's role there. I'm really curious about how HR's role is going to evolve. I know it will. I'm curious how it's going to evolve, and that's why I think we're talking with experts. How can we shape this? Let's talk with somebody about titles that are emerging now, which is Director of People and Places. So we're not only responsible for the people but also the places we work, whether it's at home or in an office, and I feel that, as I said before, we don't know what the future holds.

But I would love to see how HR's role is going to continue to evolve from incredibly tactical to strategic. And I think there's a shift in that. But I was reflecting recently just on teams, most organizations that, and I think there's probably data to back this up as they bring on an HR person, and there's 60, 70 people, they bring in somebody in HR and what was happening in an operational role beforehand, all the recruiting and documentation, all that stuff is now past HR.

But yet you brought on HR. To be strategic, and how can you plan for that future? So how do we evolve our HR teams? How do we create budgets to hire a few of us, a few people to really hone in on the operations side and the strategic side? Because not everyone is great at operations, and not everyone is great at strategic. So you're asking one person to do it all. Does that make sense? So how do we create budgets to prepare us for that future?

Daan van Rossum: It also seems that's all on top of the already huge pressure on HR to do so many things. Whenever we talk to our editorial team, we always have to remind them, like when you're writing for HR leadership, to just imagine that their phone is ringing nonstop.

People are walking into their office nonstop, whether it's a virtual one or a physical one, and there's always challenges and there's always difficulties when you're working with people. There are always the good things and the bad things, and the challenging things sometimes also make it worth it.

But it's a very complex role that those people are under a lot of pressure. And then all of these new things come on top of that. Now, I also have to think about place, the last couple of years. Now I suddenly have to become an AI expert and digital workforce planner. And according to Lettuce, we have to put the robots into our work charts.

There's just so much that's coming at HR people. What are you hearing when you're talking to people in the field? How do they feel? Is it all still manageable? Is it all still doable? 

Tim Reitsma: The word overwhelm keeps coming up for me and a few folks that I've been talking with: the landscape of our workforces is shifting and changing, whether it's going back to an office or downsizing or layoffs. In the dreaded L word, there is an incredible amount of tactical work that is still being done.

But I know for myself I'm curious. How do we offload some of that? And a few years ago it was we're going to hire a team of virtual assistants. We're going to hire assistants or EAs across the globe. And now some of that work is shifting to how do we offload that to AI? How do we create this AI space that HR can leverage that still speaks our tone of voice that we trust and can help get the work done? I've used it extensively. I'm an HR, a part-time HR advisor for an organization that's a very small organization, but I leverage AI.

Things that I would have maybe tapped into friends before, or tapped into different communities, but now I leverage AI and say, Hey, we need to brainstorm on this topic, or, Hey, how can I rewrite this? And I might sense check that with some friends or something. So what people are saying in different communities or where I'm reading online.

But I think it's incredibly difficult for HR folks when we're still employing humans, and these humans all have different needs, and we're all having maybe different levels of performance. The company might be growing or downsizing.

So we're still responsible for the entire employee lifecycle. That's not changing. Now we're just adding on a few extra things, like the places we work or this virtual workforce where we're now “employees.”

Daan van Rossum: Exactly. Then you have to think back to that person who's very overloaded and very overwhelmed. And there's so many things going on, and now I have to layer this on top of it. 

Do you see that people are looking at certain areas to prioritize that more as we're looking? It's the end of 24; now we're planning for 25. What are some topics, other than again, the role of technology and AI that people are looking into? Hey, these may be basic, but they're critical. 

Tim Reitsma: I'm incredibly biased on this one, which is disability inclusion, and I'm seeing a rise as there's more and more people, and maybe it's because I'm different algorithms are feeding me more and more data on this, but I still feel we've got a long way to go to create workplaces where people can and perform, and I don't want to use the word that can thrive because thrive doesn't mean performance.

I think we need to focus on how we create workplaces where people can perform at their best. And as we go into 2025, I was talking with this gentleman recently; he runs a big investment firm, and in Europe, a massive firm. And we're talking about how numerous organizations that he's involved in that don't have the basic processes, that don't have goals, that don't have direction complain about lack of performance, but people don't know how to perform.

And so as we go into 2025 and beyond, I feel that there's going to be a bit of a shift here, and I think we're seeing it with some of the larger organizations where it's... we're seeing a lack of performance. So we're all going back to the office. I was reading another article by another large organization saying we're not going back to the office unless it's affecting productivity.

Until then, we're just not even going to bother, and so in the back of your mind, even as an HR person is okay, how do we ensure that people are performing, not just put in by a performance management system, which I think are great? Sure, you need that, but you still need to design what performance looks like for your organization and then activate it.

Daan van Rossum: It seems also that the topics of HR and business are getting closer together, at least in a couple of conversations in the past season. That's really what came to the forefront. Like HR needs to understand business better. HR needs to understand the P&L. The bottom line needs to understand why people should be productive.

Are you seeing HR leaders now focusing more on making that connection with the business and also demanding their seat at the table when it comes to the bigger decisions? So they're not just executing what the business wants. Are you seeing more of a connection there?

Tim Reitsma: In my small circle of HR folks, absolutely. I've heard of some friends even taking some basic business courses, basic accounting courses to understand that language that is being used, maybe at that senior executive table, P&L or EBITDA. What is that? And I still don't know what that means, but it's a metric that is often used. And how does labor factor into the performance of the organization?

So it's one thing to just go and hire 10 more people, and things are great as we think they're great. But when you look at the bottom line, they're not. And so how can HR play a significant role in that? And just might not understand at all, but be able to ask the right question. So when it comes to workforce planning, okay, so we want to double the company next year.

What do we need to have in place to sustain that? Who do we have to hire first? What are the key decisions that are going to go into this future? And when we can ask those questions, and not just ask a question but understand it, at a basic level, yeah, I feel that there's already a shift into this space.

I think we're going to see it. As last season already is starting to show this, when HR understands and has a holistic picture and often we want to have the picture, we're just not at the table. So business leaders have your HR folks there. We're smart. We're bright. We have a good pulse on what's happening in the organization, and we could provide solutions. I think businesses should see HR not as a cost center but as a value add.

Daan van Rossum: Value add, not a cost center, and that's where HR can shine. 

Tim Reitsma: That's where HR needs to. I think we're already there. We can. But having somebody to represent your workforce at the table and not just looking at somebody says, Okay, we need to. Revenues aren't where they should be, as a first word out of the mouth layoff.

What else can we trim down? What are our expenses? Is there a system that we're not utilizing that maybe we can remove? What else is there that can be put into play? And often, at least from my experience, it comes down to people within the organization who don't necessarily know how their role contributes to the organization's success. Maybe we start there.

Daan van Rossum: That's obviously a wonderful topic to dive into in a season where it's almost like a masterclass on all these big topics, understanding not only now but also in the future, where can I play that really big and important role?

And just going back to you personally, what are some things that you're putting into your work as you're leading as an HR person in an organization, trying to be to the business, trying to understand all these topics while dealing with the day to day? How do you manage it all? Maybe you can give your case study to an audience.

Tim Reitsma: I'm a part-time HR person, and so I've got very limited hours in an organization, and so when I show up, I have to make every hour count, and there's tactical work that has to get done, right? I have to approve payroll, very tactical work. We have to make sure one-on-ones are happening, but in that limited time that I'm there, it's about, does your organization know where we're going?

Do we have clear objectives and clear goals, and are people set up for success in that? And if they're not, what can I do in very limited time to support? So maybe it might be sitting down with a manager and reviewing how they run a one-on-one. Maybe it's sitting down with an individual and asking about their goals. Do they understand their goals and how they tie up with the corporate objectives?

So that's where I get a balance in the tactical as well as strategic HR initiatives. As well as sitting down with the CEO and asking, Where's the organization going? And where do we want to see ourselves in five years? I don't know what's going to happen in five years.

So let's think about a year or two. Where do we want the organization? What's it going to look like? What's it going to feel like? The organizational size. And those are tough questions. So often take the time to sit down and reflect on that. Maybe they do it by themselves, but maybe not with others.

So that's my limited time as an HR advisor. My other time right now, from an HR perspective, is spent in that disability inclusion space. So I'm working with organizations primarily in keynotes and workshops and some of the strategic work on disability inclusion and how do we create spaces and remove those barriers for people to thrive.

And it all comes down to the same fundamentals: if somebody is not able to perform. Maybe they're not in the right position, or maybe there's a barrier. How do we remove those barriers to create a productive workplace and workforce?

Daan van Rossum: But in all of it, it sounds super proactive. First of all, you're setting very clear and healthy boundaries of, look, I'm here for only this many hours per week, and therefore doors hours need to count.

So I'm going to sometimes sit with a manager to solve something there, but I also need to make time to sit with the CEO. And even in your other practice, you're sitting with companies and taking on these really big topics. Even if you're not a part-time employee, you can do that. You can set healthy boundaries, but also be very strategic where you spend your time so that you actually do have time to connect with the business and in the day-to-day practices. And of course, to check off all the things on your to-do list. 

Was that kind of a process of trial and error? To get to this place where you know how to manage your time and where you're trying to serve all the priorities. 

Tim Reitsma: Oh, it's still trial and error. I say yes to a lot of things. And then right back to the beginning of our conversation, filtering it through values.

And so whether it's an external client or with the organization I support, it's I often have the conversation, Okay, we're working together. Where can I bring the most value? Let's start there, and we might root cause that put on my operations hat, and we might it just be treating a symptom. So let's see if we can get to the root cause of something that's going on. Because then I know I can either bring the value or I can, then I can say, Hey, I can't bring that value, but I know somebody who can.

That's to me really important. And I think from an HR perspective, we're going to get thrown a lot at this idea of Hey, now you're responsible for the places we work. It's that I'm not an expert there. Yeah. So owning that you're not an expert, but then, taking that initiative, there's a great book, and it's been out. I don't know how long now it's called essentialism, and as humans, we can only take on so much.

Daan, I've talked a lot about this: you've only got a certain number of hours in your day. So what are you going to say yes to? What are you going to say no to? And this goes even if you're internal in an organization. So if you're an HR person or a leader, listening to this is crucial because you could only have space for so many things on your to-do list.

And if you say yes to everything, nothing is going to get done.

So if something new comes on your plate, what do you say no to? Sit down with your manager, sit down with your CEO, and sit down with your team. Hey, we've got this new initiative. It trumps everything else. These three things now have to come off our list.

I've worked with CEOs who do not like that. They're like, What do you mean you can't do this?

Daan van Rossum: I was going to say that sounds like good advice, but scary, right? 

Tim Reitsma: It's scary, but you have to set those boundaries. Otherwise, how many of us have gone home or unplugged from work and we're miserable and our brains will shut off because we have 16 things we need to do, and we've only got 8 hours to do them in, and these 16 things are going to take 36 hours.

So we either work more and burn out, or we set healthy boundaries. And it all comes down to what's our vision? What's our mission? What are our values? What are our goals? And within your HR team, maybe you set that vision. You set those values within your team. As an individual, I need to sit down, and I've even thought about this over the last few days before recording this. For some of the work that I'm doing, I haven't set a clear vision. I haven't set clear goals.

It's work comes in. That's great. When work's not here, I freak out and just go. I need to find some way. So how do we create that sense of balance? And it's, and it evolves; the world is changing. The future is not as uncertain.

And, like, the key is just to ground yourself in what matters most and create those healthy boundaries. And it starts with communication.

Myself too, if we fail on communication. And so maybe we need to bring out a communication expert and do some exercises on, okay, but repeat after me. No. And a good friend of mine, Sean Braccini, is an amazing writer. You provided some advice recently. You said, Tim, no is a complete sentence. And I don't know. Now I took it for myself, listening to the CEO. He's saying something, and you just sit there and go, No, I wouldn't recommend that, but how, big L to say, no, how about we do this or okay, but this has to change?

Daan van Rossum: Right. It's a no, which leads to a yes. You need to say no to certain things, like you said, to prioritize things that are important. That is true for everyone, but especially for this HR leader, especially if it's in a smaller company where you may be the only person or the only one of two or one of three, where again, everything is falling on you.

I love that idea, not only of saying no but also just acknowledging where you are an expert but also where you're not and saying, Oh, that's a really great question. We need to loop someone in who knows this really well. And I've done my research, and it's this person. 

So I can already see the listeners are going to get a lot out of this season. And I know we have some really amazing guests lined up. 

Any overarching big message that you want to share before you kick off your season. 

Tim Reitsma: Overarching message: aside from listening to the podcast and sharing it with everybody, that's just, let's just get curious. We don't know what the future of work is going to hold. We have some ideas on the direction.

We have some amazing thought leaders and publications, like FlexOS. We don't know what it holds, so we can shape it. And with HR almost leading and driving that conversation, I think it's going to be a phenomenal future. I don't know what it's going to hold—that overarching message of curiosity—let's just get curious this season and figure masterclass is going to be together.

So if somebody is listening to this and... And it has a topic top of mind; feel free to reach out to Daan or reach out to myself on LinkedIn or through the publication. Let's have that conversation.

Daan van Rossum: And let's be curious together. Okay, Tim, thanks so much for being on. And I cannot wait to listen to the season.

Tim Reitsma: I'm excited to be invited to host this season, and yeah, it's going to be fun.

Daan van Rossum: Okay. Thanks so much.

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